On Brock Lesnar and the UFC's Credibility

Posted Nov 19, 2008 10:59AM By Michael David Smith (RSS feed)

Filed Under: UFC

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I continue to hear from MMA fans and MMA critics alike who say that Brock Lesnar -- a former pro wrestler who's only been training in MMA for a couple of years -- winning the UFC heavyweight championship tarnishes the credibility of the UFC and the sport in general.

This FanHouse commenter is the latest:

I enjoy MMA, but lets face it, It is like a triathlete good at(running, swimming and biking) but not great at any. Could you think of someone coming into boxing (after being a pro wrestler) and becoming heavy weight champ. I'm Happy for Brock (scary dude) but him winning proves that MMA is an overrated toughman contest. Still enjoyable but not much skill required. Brock brings down the creditbility of the UFC and MMA in general. I'll still watch though just like I would watch a street fight.

Before Lesnar made his UFC debut, I was sympathetic to that argument. But I'm not anymore.

For starters, the idea that because Lesnar was a WWE star he somehow lacks credibility as a real athlete doesn't hold up to much scrutiny. Lesnar was a great college wrestler. He's a legitimate athlete. The fact that he took some time off from being a legitimate athlete to go work in choreographed pro wrestling doesn't change that.

And while it's true that Lesnar couldn't be the heavyweight champ in boxing, the comparison to boxing doesn't really work because the skills necessary for wrestling aren't a component of boxing the way they are a component of MMA.

As for the comparison to triathlons, I actually like that comparison a lot, I just disagree with the commenter above. If Lance Armstrong had announced that he was retiring from the Tour de France to take up triathlons and had become the Ironman champ, would anyone think that brought down the credibility of triathlons? I don't think so.

The bottom line is that Lesnar is a great athlete who's worked hard at MMA and deserves the credit he's getting. I don't think he's the best heavyweight in MMA (that would be Fedor Emelianenko) or even in the UFC (I'd pick Antonio Rodrigo Nogueira to beat him), but he is a good fighter who has taken on legitimate opponents, and I don't think his possession of the title belt detracts from the UFC's credibility at all.

Reader Comments (Page 1 of 2)

11-19-2008 @ 11:33AM

Gary Thomas said...

If someone thinks that Brock Lesnar does has no credibility as the heavyweight champ of the UFC, all they have to do is step into the octogon and take the belt from him! Good luck and sweet dreams.

11-19-2008 @ 1:16PM

TheHulk said...

I think Brock proves MMA is another form of tough man contest I am not dismissing the entire sport I believe it could become the best and most profitable fighting sport out there and even though it is a profitable outlet for Wrestlers and BBJ, I believe the best Strikers are Pro Boxers, the best Wrestlers are NCAA Division 1 champs or Olympic Champs, and the best at BBJ are not in MMA but are teaching them. Lets face it Techencial sports can be boring to watch too the avg layman and right now MMA is the most fun to watch. but when the fighters start to move to the GSP level, it could lose some of its appeal. I love Randy C but remember her never could make the olympic level of Greco-Roman. Wrestling.

The guy who won the Ironman could not beat Lance A in a bike race, could not beat the man who won NYC Marathon and could not beat Micheal Philps at swimming.

PS I love watching MMA because it is so raw and not as polished.

11-19-2008 @ 1:30PM

nbtjameyboi said...

Pro boxers are not the best strikers, Muay Thai for the win

11-19-2008 @ 1:56PM

John said...

This fight just goes to proves that skill is only one component in the outcome of a fight. The others are determination and just plain DUMB LUCK! If you watch the fight, you'll see that Couture was the obviously the more skilled opponent. Lesnar was bright red, winded and gasping for air like a fish out of water at the end of the first round (even Joe Rogan made similar comments - it takes a LOT of oxygen to fuel that hulking frame for any lenght of time!). A LUCKY SHOT brought Lesnar victory, but if it hadn't happened, Couture would have dominated the fight (just like he did against Gabe Gonzaga). It is that RANDOM ELEMENT that keeps matches unpredictable, because no one can ever really know the outcome. Lesar MIGHT be the future of the UFC, but only if he can keep his title. I'll reserve judgement until his next fight (be it a rematch with Couture or anyone else). The fact that a man who technically had only 3 MMA fights EVER (up to that point) even got a chance to step in the octagon with the heavyweight champion is rather insulting to all the other heavyweights 'waiting in line' for their shot (regardless of whether or not Lesnar is built like a brick sh!thouse!) This was just another ploy (be it a successful one) for Dana White to 'grab the cash and run' (as opposed to making the new guy earn his stripes).

11-19-2008 @ 3:02PM

I agree! I think Dana put the Credibility of the UFC on the line and the fact that a guy with 3 fights was able to beat the champ, hurts the case that this is a highly skilled sport. Randy was far superior with skill and talent but lost to a lucky (poorly thrown) punch by a big man who is tough as nails. Kodos to Brock for what he did, but lets face it he's know Tyson, Holyfield or even David Tua with his hands.

11-19-2008 @ 3:17PM

G said...

The punch Lesnar threw that dropped Couture was not a "lucky shot". It was, at least, the third shot Lesnar landed with his right fist or elbow that landed cleanly and staggered Couture.

Couture was far from dominating this fight, and the main reason he dominated against Gonzaga was that Gonzaga's nose was broken, not Couture's edge in skill. If you're going to say that the random element diminishes Lesnar, then it diminishes Couture as well. If he didn't land just as he did, breaking Gonzaga's nose, that's a different fight. Maybe Couture still wins, but it's a different fight.

Get your facts straight, too. Lesnar's had 4 MMA fights; 3 in the UFC.

As for that punch being poorly thrown, would you mind pointing out Lesnar's technique flaws? If you can, that is.

11-19-2008 @ 2:21PM

Joe T said...

IMO this fight shows that size does matter when BOTH know how to fight. Whoever beats him will need speed to hit and not get hit, and power to drop him.

http://www.fromthecage.com

11-19-2008 @ 3:45PM

Brayan said...

Uh....has everyone forgotten what Frank Mir did to this guy in less than a minute after recieving massive blows to the face and head?
Having a strong recovery and chin after being struck is part of the sport. Randy has never had an excellent chin and Brock Rocked him much earlier than the final Ko.

11-19-2008 @ 4:02PM

Eric said...

If Brock hadn't been a pro wrestler and he was just some guy who came on the scene and challenged for the title, would everyone be so quick to say he is disgracing MMA & saying that he has no skill ... OK, maybe a little since he only had 3 fights, but I think most would just say "WOW, that dude is bad ass!"

Anderson Silva, BJ Penn, GSP, Fedor ... these guys have already proved that MMA is a highly skilled sport.

Lesnar is an amazing athlete who has spent the last couple years dedicated to learning MMA and becoming the UFC Champ. I was quick to doubt him and still doubt his skill level in some areas, but imagine how much better he is going to get with every fight!

I realize that the sport has changed in the last 10 years, but ... Couture was fighting high level opposition in his 3rd and 4th fights (Vitor Belfort & Maurice Smith) ... so what's the real issue with Brock doing it now for the title?

As I said earlier, I doubted him and his skill since he began fighting in the UFC, but truthfully he is a serious threat at heavyweight (in the UFC anyway) and isn't going anywhere anytime soon.

11-19-2008 @ 6:05PM

Eric, yes this has already happened (of sorts) - his name is Kimbo Slice and even though he was never involved in a championship match, when he hit the scene every MMA fighter rolled their eyes and groaned. You are correct, Couture WAS fighting high-level opposition after only a handfull of fights, but remember those were tournament-style matches (one after the other).

I'm not trying to detract from Lesnar - he is a VERY gifted wrestler and he IS built like a brick sh!thouse. His progress in just two years is remarkable, but my point is that his skill in other areas of MMA still are SORELY lacking (just watch the MIr fight). He needs to really develop his ground game (jiu jitsu) and work on his cardio (he was winded and gasping for air by the end of the first round of the Couture fight). You are correct though, WHEN Brock learns more and rounds out his plate, he will be virtually UNSTOPPABLE. Right now though, he has too many weaknesses that can be exploited. I have a feeling that Lesar will not be holding on to the title for very long....

11-20-2008 @ 7:48AM

John - the fights I referred to weren't tournament fights ... they were a couple months apart.

I have to disagree about Lesnar being tired at the end of the first ... Randy looked much more winded to me from trying to control the big guy, and Brock wasn't that tired at the end of the fight. Most of the questions you have about Brock will be answered in his next fight (most likely Nogueira). His submission defense and cardio will most definitely be tested. Like you, I doubt he will pass this test so early in his career. I don't think he will be able to avoid the subs of Big Nog, and it's unlikely that Big Nog will get knocked out.

11-19-2008 @ 4:04PM

The referee gave Mir a chance to recover when he stopped the action for the "illegal strike". I don't think I would call that strong recovery ... especially after seeing what Brandon Vera did to him!

11-19-2008 @ 4:47PM

Shaun said...

Randy is a pretty decent boxer. Amazing? No, but he did box as an amateur for a while, and he trains hard. You don't land a "lucky shot" against a skilled boxer, Lesnar played to his strengths and won the fight. That is the beauty of MMA, you can always come back.

11-19-2008 @ 6:14PM

'Lucky shots' happen all the time, Shaun - it's simply a matter of a fighter zigging when they should have zagged. Now before anyone jumps my sh!t, let me state that from what I saw, it looked like Lesar DID throw a relatively clean punch. Now WHERE that punch landed combined with the sheer force of it was what rocked Randy's world. I think Randy underestimated Lesnar's power and got nailed.

G - I'm never said that Brock is a sloppy puncher. I'm saying Randy zigged when he should have zagged. And you ARE right, dumb luck works BOTH WAYS - it was lucky (for Couture) that he broke Gonzaga's nose, but on the flipside, Gabe fractured Randy's arm and Randy still won... pretty hardcore if you ask me.

...and G, learn to READ - I said UP TO THAT POINT (meaning BEFORE the Couture fight), Lesnar fought only 3 times.

11-19-2008 @ 7:53PM

Kevin said...

Eric, you can't get on Mir for his performance against Vera. He still wasn't fully recovered from that horrible motorcycle accident. He is still improving and I can't wait for his fight against Nog.

11-20-2008 @ 7:49AM

Kevin - Frank Mir isn't a good striker. He only has 1 KO, and he has already been knocked out 3 times in a relatively short career ... all in the first round! Anything can happen, I guess, but I really don't see anyway for Frank to win that fight.

11-20-2008 @ 2:43PM

Anyone who thinks a MMA figther could go into a boxing match with a real boxer, dosen't know sh*t about boxing. I trian MMA fighters on stand-up tech, Boxers are far superior with their hands it's just a fact (Silva vs Roy Jones in a boxing match don't make me laugh) Silva dosen't even go 2 rounds...

11-20-2008 @ 3:24PM

Should I take your word for it, or should I listen to someone like Freddy Roach who knows what they are talking about? He has worked with Arlovski and claims his boxing is world class.

11-20-2008 @ 3:00PM

Darryl said...

While I will aggree that most fighters are not ready to compete at that level in their 4th fight to fight for title, but those who really know anything about MMA will also know that Randy fought for the title in his 4th UFC pro fight as well. Did that make the UFC title less credible?

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